Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to on the Fringe, the podcast where we explore the systems, technology and people shaping the future of fringe benefit reporting.
I'm Ann Larson, CEO of Corellian Software, the makers of EPR Live. And today I'm joined by someone who brings a national perspective to the table. Ian Andrews is NECA's executive director of Field and Industrial Labor Relationship.
He works closely with chapters, contractors and union leadership to navigate the challenges of labor negotiations, workforce development and industry wide strategy.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: If you've ever been part of a.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Negotiation or tried to build something with.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Other people, you'll find a lot to.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Connect with in this episode. So let's jump in.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: Well, hey Anne, I'm Ian Andrews and I am NECA's executive director of Field and Industrial Labor Relationship based out of Madison, Wisconsin for our Washington D.C. office.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Awesome. And how do you explain this job to people who are not in the industry?
[00:01:07] Speaker C: First, it's important to ask them if they have about 30 to 45 minutes for a complete flowchart to explain NECA, the IBW Electrical Training Alliance. Once we get through the acronyms, start diving into the name. At the end of the day I try to explain NECA as the association for Unionized Electrical Contractors.
Our role is to do anything at their direction to help them be better, more competitive, sustainable, viable electrical contractors in the construction market.
I started my career at the Illinois Chapter as the National Electrical Benefit Fund Coordinator, better known as nebf. I came into the less than perfect structure from what the person before left behind.
And so my job was to one, understand what Nika was, which I'm grateful I pronounced it NECA in my interview and I was still hired so 14ish years later, still here, very grateful for that. But more importantly I came into that role and we had just moved from manual paper reporting of benefit funds and hours and wages by our signatory contractors and their employees to EPR Live. So I was grateful to have EPR out of the gate because I didn't know any different. So there were no bad habits trying to understand how the system worked, how it integrated, how to better build it. With you all, I was spending every single day looking at data and benefit reporting for all the contractors. We had 450 in our chapter at the time and that allowed me to get familiar with the names and the accounting departments and the accredited representatives understand the data side behind it.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: So what is your background before Illinois Chapter neca?
[00:02:40] Speaker C: I was born into neca. When I came out of the Garden of Eden it was very, very direct. I graduated college and I started at the chapter that Monday so there was no in between.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: I know, right?
[00:02:52] Speaker B: What did you study in school?
[00:02:53] Speaker C: Accounting. Natural fit. Thus the NEBF position. And about three years later we were no longer doing much in accounting.
Still love it. Still have a passion for it. It's helpful when I do my taxes.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: I see. And then you knew about and you didn't obviously because you called it neca.
So you didn't know Nika. It was just a job posting that you responded to.
[00:03:15] Speaker C: I came through a hiring agency shout out to express employment professionals for connecting me to the Illinois chapter. I was honestly just trying to get ahead of my peers in about late February, early March and applying the jobs, thinking, well, maybe somebody will have an opening in a little bit and this will work out time wise. Didn't really know a whole lot about unions. My dad was a union member in his career, but not an engaged one and I didn't have a whole lot of construction experience. So it's been a lot of time just trying to make sure I did my part of the deal for everybody that has supported me and understand construction and NECA members and the association and every bit and piece and nook and cranny to become a well rounded, useful part of that.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: So I guess the follow up question is, was there a moment at NECA where you realized that you really loved this and wanted to sink your teeth into it?
[00:04:05] Speaker C: I remember like week two or three and just having. I was reading a contract and working with Billy Szerbozek and saying, all right, what does this mean? What does that mean? What does this mean?
And I asked a few questions and he's like, you know, you answered the question like you seem to be catching on to this pretty quickly. I feel like it synced very quickly and I'm grateful for that. Not a lot of things in life always make sense and for some reason this just has clicked and it's been far from perfect and I've made a plethora of mistakes, but I realized that this was something I could succeed at and be useful. At the end of the day, it's a membership driven association. I found our members in Illinois and then when I became a rep across the northern Midwest, our members there and across the region now across the country have been willing and joyfully welcoming me to be a part of that. It wasn't a definitive moment, but it just seemed to click very quickly and I'm grateful for that. I had good mentors and good teachers that made sure I didn't lose track of that along the way and kept growing, still growing.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: Awesome. So what do you think about introducing technology in general? Whether it's like really new stuff like AI in the electrical field or just other technology. How do you manage that? Are you ever a part of that?
[00:05:18] Speaker C: I don't like taking the adapt or die process because I don't like absolutes and catchy phrases that people seem to latch onto. But, but a world has evolved so much.
Something as simple as turning paper reporting into an electronic remittance system and then getting accounting systems to create Excel files that can batch upload to make that easier. Like seems like a small step. It's really a giant leap. And all that does is create data. So the ability to analyze that has really changed. Where before I come into the role, I'm looking at just macro level charts and all right, ABC Electric increased 2,000 hours the last month.
Payroll has gone up 5%. You can do some light division and understand that base wages are being paid over scale or right at scale or they're using a different composite rate and that's just like simple in front of you.
But being able to use a function like AI to better understand the picture that you don't see. Take identifying information out, put them Behind a paywall ChatGPT site, drop a spreadsheet in and say what's interesting about this data and it's going to give you trends and stats and figures and possible reasoning and understand the market and global economics that you just don't have readily in front of you. And I think that just allows a much broader view of the world and that's what I enjoy.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: So I assume, given what I know of the industry, that you've got some people that are totally on board with that. And then you're going to also have some people who are resistant.
What do you say to the people who are resisting?
[00:06:45] Speaker C: It's really interesting because we do have that spread. You have advanced publicly traded, highly technologically integrated entities in our membership base. At the Illinois chapter we had four or five that would literally fax over an NPR every month. Right. So you had the widest spread possible of what that adaption looked like.
Ultimately you have to figure out the use case that makes the best sense for your business and understand that it can be a value prop, not necessarily a scary change or a disruption. You can educate yourself, you can bring in new staff, new mindsets that are already very well versed in using this technology.
I hope anybody listening would take that advice and become curious because if you're not Curious. You'll never learn. Learning is the key to growth, in my humble opinion.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: I agree.
That's one of our core values.
I really love the idea of bringing in people who complement you who aren't the same as you. I think that a lot of times what I've seen anyway, in hiring and other businesses, the hiring person is hiring themselves over and over again.
You can find people who love the things that you hate. It's amazing.
Such an eye opener to me to be like, oh, somebody loves doing this terrible thing.
[00:07:58] Speaker C: It truly is. Right. You can live in an echo chamber. One of the easiest things to fall into. I can put myself in a room with 15 baseball fans and lose Days of Our Lives talking about random names. Right. That's the culture. I don't know a lot about hockey and go to a Blackhawks game and start hanging out with some people there and you get a whole new perspective. And now you feel like you're a more well rounded individual too. Right. There's some fun to that. That's part of life. I enjoy that.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Me too.
All right, so negotiations, what is your role in negotiations in general? Like, do you help out actually with specific negotiations in areas?
[00:08:33] Speaker C: So where my role now comes in is I serve as an alternate panel member and the functionary for CIR for management with Nika. And we are a group of 12 individuals that come to a unanimous decision for all wage and grievances that come before us. So we meet quarterly in Washington D.C.
we hear the cases from each party, they present orally, they submit written briefs, and then we meet an executive session and reach a decision.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: And this is unanimous?
[00:09:00] Speaker C: This is unanimous.
It's truly and over 100 years we've been doing this with NECA and IBW. Our forefathers, forefathers had the insight to create this board and to their credit, it has sustained. But it is 12 people reaching unanimous decision.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: And that's six from labor, six from management.
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Yes, correct.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: So when you get in that room, what is the mindset you have to have or how do you all come together? Is it a pretty stable group of people?
[00:09:31] Speaker C: Yeah, the trial by fire. We have an official pin ceremony and tattoo that you have to get through indoctrination. But in all seriousness, there is a little bit of turnover for both labor and management there just because it is somewhat of a term position. Labor has a five year term for their individual in their pool and ours are on an annual basis as appointed by the NECA president.
And honestly, it's just spending the time together outside of the room, meeting, collaborating, just getting to know one another. I think that's the first part. And then just understanding. We bring people in to observe a session and they can see how the process works before they're in the seat. And I think that makes a big difference for creating expectations of what the process looks like, how to handle yourself, how to ask good questions and ultimately how to solve a problem without making somebody else's trauma your own to reach a decision rather than the alternative. It just continue to spin in the dirt.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: When we deal with wage cases, it's when both parties have a very strong and logic based argument about current, future and past economic realities.
And you can look at the stats and the figures and say I can logically deduct how everybody's taking the viewpoint they have. And ultimately you're both correct. And then you start looking at, you know, comparables and what the rest of the world looks like. And it's very tough to then figure out, you know, is there one side that is more correct? And those are just tough to navigate because ultimately you're trying to reach a decision for the industry, not just pick somebody's starting position.
You're trying to navigate real macroeconomic issues for a geographic area where the impact is literal, thousands of lives and families and communities. And that's important. And I think that weighs very heavily on all of the panel to make a decision for the industry, not just what's in front of you.
So those are very challenging and grievance cases. Poor language leads to ambiguity, which leads to dissent. And there are some language items out there that you don't blame anybody for being in that position because it was just a poorly written document that didn't have an issue for 40 years. And here you are trying to pick up the pieces, understand intent from people that aren't around.
And the same word can mean three different things to two different people. That becomes very challenging because you really don't have the full story.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I can imagine that sounds really difficult. And we run into that in our onboarding all the time Rate sheet seems like it's very clear, but every contractor actually has to interpret that for themselves, how they're going to pay it.
So what's your favorite part about the negotiations or any of your work?
[00:12:12] Speaker C: I think my favorite part of my role right now is being able to solution for so many people across the country in a creative fashion.
I take a lot of pride and joy in trying to bring multiple solutions to the table. So it's not just a one track mind and if I can spark curiosity or interest in interested party and trying a solution through something that they can own and maybe have a different mindset they didn't have, seeing that process. And with solution, implementation, labor piece and moving forward, there's a lot of joy in that. It allows people to focus on what they probably would much rather spend time on, which is growing market share, capturing work, working together, improving their communities, improving the lives of their contractors, of the employees, working for the contractors, you know, keeping people safe.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: So I run into this a lot, and I see it everywhere. I see it at home, at work, where there's a problem and everybody jumps to a solution instead of just sitting with the problem. It's really hard, I think. I think we're like hardwired, most of us, to just like go, oh, this is how I fix it.
You've talked a lot about solutions and problems. Do you have some mechanisms to keep people focused on a problem long enough to really dig into it?
[00:13:29] Speaker C: I always joke. I used to do hunger strikes mediations where I'd bring my own snacks and step out in the hallway and have a cracker and everybody else would sit in the room for eight to 12 hours, and that would really force them to reach a solution quickly.
I learned from Richard Barnes in the Volt class for Organizational Leadership several years ago that individuals organically listen to respond, not listen to, understand, and trying to make that a part of the culture that we integrate from the start with, you know, ground rules. Just how I operate, how I'm trying to have our peers operate and have the same message in the same room over and over and over to start norming. So some people need a solution right away and get it out and be heard. And then you have to have a little time for that to marinate. Some people aren't going to say things right away, but they have their own mindset. And you have to say, hey, you know, Jimmy, you're sitting there quietly. What do you think when you talk.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: About people being heard?
What I have noticed is that sometimes people equate being heard with their solution being implemented. How do you make people feel like they're heard even if that is not ultimately the solution?
[00:14:33] Speaker C: Yeah, we teach a lot of labeling and mirroring, repeating back to somebody if they have a solution and they're saying, I think ABC needs to be done.
All right, as I understand, you're looking for ABC to be implemented because that leads to this outcome. Now what if we could accomplish that by going down this road instead? It's not a redirection but it's helping them understand. You do generally hear that you're repeating it back to them, you're mirroring it. You're validating that emotion and then trying to drip in a different outcome for consideration to spark curiosity on their end.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: My understanding is that the electrical industry faces some major workforce shortages coming up.
What are your thoughts on that?
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Ultimately the industry is expanding at a rate we've never seen before. And you'll hear it called the Electrification of America.
Just the scale of projects hitting areas that typically aren't seeing this type of mega construction or hyperscale is unprecedented. You'll have a small town of 10,000 people, have a large data center get dropped on it that employs 7,000 craftspeople tomorrow. Latest stats are somewhere between 90,000 new electricians will be needed by 2032.
All total industry.
Currently I think there's 850,000 IBWA members. As President Cooper is looking at how do we get to a million?
We know that there's probably 350,000 of those that are working in what I'd consider construction. Ultimately our contractor members are looking for people and hoping they're there. That just don't exist. Union or non. Union.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: So what do you see as the solutions?
[00:16:06] Speaker C: I think we need to change how we train. We have implemented computer mediated learning. We have apprenticeship programs taking that on to allow individuals to spend their time in the classroom, labs and hands on settings. I think we need to evaluate how we bring people into apprenticeship or alternative classification. CW Cesar eliminating barriers to entry to at least let somebody try the industry out. We're working on an industry coalition with our other association partners to holistically recruit. If every electrician and every contractor just brought in one person they knew and we kept half of them, we more than likely solve our workforce shortage problem tomorrow.
So there is a level of peering that I think we have to do a better job at collaboratively.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: What's the best advice that nobody ever gave you or what's a hard lesson you had to learn?
[00:16:59] Speaker C: We'll start with the best advice I did get and that's gonna buy me time to think of the best advice I didn't get. The best advice I got early on was don't take anything personal. It doesn't matter if you're the Pope. Somebody will philosophically disagree with you even if you're providing their answer. And they will scream at you, yell at you, hit the table and ask for you to be fired.
Keep going. I have found that to be true more times than I can Count the best advice I didn't get.
I feel like I'm quoting Ted Lasso, but just be curious.
You know, I think everybody around me and again, leadership, mentorship and bosses have given me all the Runway in the world to grow. But it was never the directive of make sure you're being curious.
Ask good questions and ask good follow up questions. And if you don't understand something, it's okay to say, hey, I don't get it. I learned very quickly. Everybody was willing to help, but I never understood the why. And it's because we're all still learning and growing together.
And we have so many new folks, both labor and management. We have so many new folks in the contracting space. We have so many new folks in the customer space. Customers that are going to work for our contracts for 10 years don't exist today. They're also catching up into what is neca, ibw, the industry and so forth and helping. Just ask good questions because you're genuinely curious. You just want to learn.
Once I had that kind of click, that's what was happening. It helped me really put into hyperdrive my ability to do that.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: That didn't click for me until reading a lot of Brene Brown read and.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: Find the time to read stacks of books behind me. I still need to read.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Do you as Neeka I know you.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Meet pretty frequently in person at various times of the year. Do you have a specific NECA national off site where you all get together.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: And work through things from an association standpoint? We do have an association executive institute usually we had it two weeks ago. It's like our pre convention for our chapter executives. We have our national convention that brings together just about everybody. Yeah, we have tons of events over the year that contractor members are engaged with, but that's kind of our Most like association peer 3.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: I've heard that you guys implemented masterminds in Nika. How is that working out?
[00:19:13] Speaker C: We have contractor peer groups that Nika's role is to find out who's interested. Then we work with third party facilitators. We provide them the names. They work on pairing, forming, storming, norming peer groups for the contractor. It's been fantastic. It was a joy to be a part of that as well. And bringing together just because you do so much work stuff. But they're also a very tight personal friend group now within the association. I really enjoy watching them come together and the staying power those have had.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think my mastermind is finally going to get together in person. It started during COVID so we've just always been remote and I think finally this summer we're going to get together.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: That helps the group yell, right? That in person connectivity, it doesn't have to be every time but it's a whole lot easier virtually after it's happened.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: In person I think. So have you heard any success stories or do you have any success stories from the peer groups?
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Just watching them solution amongst each other? The chapter executive is the proverbial boots on the ground working with the contractor member and the local business manager and their ability to self solution based on past practices and successes. Into group chat with 10 people chiming in. I got a colleague who calls it the hive mind.
Pick your issue from accounting to finance to hiring to labor relations to contract management and bylaw updates and what are you doing? And having that dedicated across the country mindset come together instantaneously.
We're seeing that day in, day out and we're seeing the improvements in our chapters operations based on how much more connected they are with one another year round.
And I think they're just truly enjoying it too. It's a space to do something different in their day to day and you need that from a mental health and emotional standpoint too.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say a lot of these types of jobs are lonely.
There's not that many chapter managers and a lot of chapters only have one.
It's geographically split up. So then you are just kind of alone. It feels lonely.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: Yeah. It can be very isolating and that's why I have so much appreciation for our chapter executives and their staffs and what they're doing. Because there are times it can feel like you're on an island. I think that peering is so important to keep you from being in a Gilligan situation where you want to get off the mental health side. I think mental health and Nika in general is be in tune that it's real and be in tune that your brain is a high functioning part of your body that needs care and attention. I hope any stigmas or things that people would have with reluctance to that would take a moment and really evaluate if that's based on reality or something else and be willing to move forward and seek help. Be optimistic, have peers that you speak with, have friends and make sure you make time for yourself. If you don't take care of the things you care about, you're not going to have anything to fill the bucket for the rest of your life and your professional career either.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: So I want to ask a question that might be a little bit Awkward.
[00:22:04] Speaker C: Fire away.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: When I think about mental health, for me, I mean, I've been through trauma and all the things when Kip died and with, you know, difficult children. To me, it makes sense. And my personality is to reach out for help. And I have help and have done all of that. But what I tend to see is that it's harder for males in my life. So, for instance, my daughter was willing to go to Dougie center and talk about grief. My son was not.
Therapy worked okay for my daughter, did not work for my son or other men in my life. And of course, this industry is heavily male dominated.
What do you see or. I know you're not an expert in this. I'm just curious about it. Is the mental health industry set up to help men? Do you feel like, or are there changes that need to happen for men to reach out? Are there systemic changes that need to happen for men to get the help they need?
[00:23:05] Speaker C: No. That's a fantastic human question there. I mean, in my personal opinion, the systems itself are built for success at this point in time where there's just so many resources, be it in person, virtual emails, calls, text. I know, like our family medical care plan has a better help relationship because they know that construction workers are very unlikely to take off work to meet with anybody and have a conversation like that. So now it's an ability to call, text, do it on their own time without missing work. That was a barrier that's overcome. I think we're seeing those systems in place. But ultimately it's cultural. Helping people understand from an early age that this is perfectly acceptable. There's nothing wrong with an individual if they decide that they need help or resources. And sharing when you do your story and your family and what's worked and what hasn't, that becomes real. For somebody else that's heard that and they can say, I can relate. That's good to know. Your daughter had successes. I think my daughter might, I should maybe look at moving in a direction where we can provide her assistance, making it real so it's peer to peer and it's not stigmatized. Keeping the conversation door open.
The cultural shift is going to be more important than all the structural pieces in place today to help somebody if they need help. In my opinion.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: This is a little bit of a shift, but have you mentored anybody in the industry?
[00:24:24] Speaker C: I've tried to informally, in every way, shape or form that I can. Be it from new staff members on our team, new chapter folks.
It's a little easier on the association side because you're in similar roles, but I think just being willing to say, hey, you're new. Who are you? Tell me about yourself. And seeing where the conversation goes or sometimes things get opened up where you get a question and you realize that there's a broader scope that isn't understood yet and say, can we just spend an hour? I'd love to give you some insights on some of the questions you had and help you understand it a little better. When people take you up on that, it's a lot easier to begin investing in one another and building a better relationship and kind of getting that mentor peering support.
I remember being the youngest person in the room and having great people come up and say, hey, who are you? How can we help? If I can give even just 1% of that back to the association at large would love to do that.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Do you have any specific mentors you want to call out?
[00:25:16] Speaker C: Gosh, where to start? Yeah. Billy Szerbozic, Dave Ward, Steve Krieg. Just about every chapter manager I met from 2012-15 because I was about 10 years younger than everybody out of there and greatly appreciated our team. Now even peer to peer with Ryan Courtney, John Mandel, Jeff Fagan, David Long and his leadership. Our senior team continue to just be arms open here to help and never not answered the phone to help me be better answer a question or better serve our members. And it's so appreciated.
How about you?
[00:25:51] Speaker B: So I would say when I finally got into it was more like the peer groups and it took a long time for me to even realize that they existed. So things like microconf and SAS Academy. And there's more too. I just. Those are the two that I was involved in or have been involved in. Microconf led me to the peer group and SAS Academy. I have an executive coach there, so it's a little bit different since it's.
[00:26:16] Speaker C: Like paid, but still no impact is impact. Right?
[00:26:21] Speaker B: It's so helpful to have people to talk to. There is nobody in my personal life who does anything close to what I do.
So there's nobody I could go to and be like, hey, you built a business and did this thing. Not in technology anyway.
Maybe because my entry into this world was weird and probably for other reasons as well, I don't feel like I've had the same mentorship.
And because there's not that scaffolding in place. The association stuff.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: No, totally real and valid. I appreciate you sharing that.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Well, it's something I've wondered about and I've spent time trying to Figure out how do people do that? How do you find a mentor? Also personality.
I think some people are more likely to go out and find that. And my personality doesn't necessarily align.
[00:27:18] Speaker C: I have found my desire and willingness and ability to grow a social circle is actually prohibitive.
Like too, too big, almost too big. Joke about no new friends. But you reach a point where like, I'm not giving 100% to anybody because I have tried to be so many things for so many other people.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Well, how do you manage that? Because there's so many people you must have to know and learn and find out about in your job.
How do you also have the personal side of things?
[00:27:48] Speaker C: It's a work in progress. I have a wonderful wife who bears with me and keeps me grounded when I over commit us being clear when you are at bandwidth and capacity to say, hey, I will give you 100%, I just can't in this moment is better than leaving somebody hanging. That's one of my latest lessons I'm trying to implement.
It's okay to disappoint somebody for a minute to let them know you'll come through for them in an hour, then just not be there at all.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Do you try to block out a certain percentage of your time or do you even know ahead of time where you're going to be or what you're going to be able to do?
[00:28:22] Speaker C: That's what the work in progress is, learning how to be flexible and still honor commitments. It's a perpetual balance that somebody say, the illusion is that that can exist and you just get better at navigating it. So it's a growth area and just takes time.
Imperfect science.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Right now I don't have to travel, so I have certain friends and friend groups that I block out the time for. But it can be hard because they don't always block out the same time that I do.
[00:28:48] Speaker C: Well, and there's a philosophical challenge there, right? Like if I'm with a group of our close friends and they're all like, yeah, we're always free on Thursdays. And I'm like, hold on, let me pull out the calendar. How about in five?
And you almost get a stone face back. Like, you really aren't available for the next four.
Yeah, I'm not.
But you know, a good relationship withstands that and you figure out other opportunities.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Yes, I think my best friends are the ones that I know, like, it could be years before we see each other again.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: But no, that's the mark of a good friendship. We have so many friends and family with kids and we don't. Right. So that's its own balance. Where you want to say, hey, we love you, we love your kids. We're okay doing things with them. If it works better on your schedule, trying to find the common ground that works for everybody and be genuine about it when we mean it, it's all part of it.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: I do remember during COVID the chapter managers were like, oh, my gosh, I get to be home and with my kids and my family. Do you have any stories about that transition back into travel?
[00:29:50] Speaker C: I feel very blessed that I was in a remote position since 2017, so there wasn't this light switch. I was just around a lot more and I got to know my wife again and turns out she still loves me. It was fantastic. I think there's some push pull. It depends on your personality. There's people that love the separation and getting to go to the office or do things every day. And there's people that have gotten better at remanaging their time to either delegate or build a team or utilize resources to spread the load more. It was very intentional, which is nice to see. Like recognizing there was a major cultural shift, a major life shift, and how they wanted to approach it, and then implementing a plan to do so without impacting their ability to do their job or their team's ability to succeed. Those are just cool to see. I've been very proud of them on how they've managed that re acclimation process.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that is interesting. I like that. I'm sure that it was different in different areas, but I like the idea of using that break to reassess and then make a plan to keep the good that you loved about the job.
Clearly, all these people were hired knowing they would have to be traveling all the time, so presumably they're going to tend to be okay with that, but perhaps getting rid of some of the things that they didn't like.
Anything else you want to ask me or anything else? I didn't ask you that you wish I had.
[00:31:04] Speaker C: I'm in great shape. How about you?
[00:31:06] Speaker B: I think we're good.
[00:31:07] Speaker C: Appreciate your producing. Thanks for the opportunity to come on here. This has been an absolute joy hearing that you were doing a podcast and getting to connect to a foundational piece of my career and hopefully create some listeners and content and curiosity amongst your listener base. I'm always happy to come on and I really appreciate you giving me the time to do that today.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Yay. We'll probably have you on again.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: Happy to do it.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: That's it for today's episode of on the Fringe. A huge thank you to Ian Andrews for joining me and sharing such a thoughtful behind the scenes look at the work Nika does, from building stronger relationships to making data driven decisions that move the industry forward.
I especially appreciated Ian's take on curiosity, mentorship and the human side of labor negotiations. It's easy to forget just how many people are working behind the scenes to keep this system moving, and Ian is clearly one of the people making a difference every day. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and if it sparked ideas or questions, we'd love to hear from you. The email address which we'll add to the show notes is on the Fringe podcastarelliansoft.com this episode was edited by John Shaw and our theme music was composed by Kellen Green. Thanks for listening. We've got more conversations coming soon with the people shaping the present and future.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Of Fringe benefit reporting.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: See you next time.
